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How do we plan Hierarchy?!
Diana
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Posted 10-12-2008Reply

Dear HRians,





I would like to get a good picture on the importance of a well defined “hierarchy” in an organization.



How do you plan & define the hierarchy/designations for different departments?



Who is responsible for setting it & on what basis?!





I would really appreciate, if you could share your real time experiences...







Thanks a lot…



Diana



Ramakrishna Varma
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  Rated +2 | Posted 10-12-2008

The trend has evolved to have flat hierarchies with open door policies.

Here are some points you may consider:

-- Have a maximum of 5 reports to any manager. If really need to stretch this, it should NOT be more than 7.

-- It should suit the size of the company.

-- Keep it flexible to easily get modified as the company changes - in terms of no. of employees, customers, departments, expanding into new product lines and businesses, etc.

-- Make sure members (employees) feel good about the designations - be liberal with titles and what they mean... this is especially important for small companies.

-- The manager / team leader should be competent, preferably with hands-on experience, in the result areas of his team's day to day work. Make sure you avoid a not so competent manager managing very competent team members. This could be disastrous for the organization.





Diana
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  Rated +1 | Posted 10-12-2008

Very well said Ramakrishna…

Million thanks for your valuable contribution…

Specially small companies who assign different roles & responsibilities to members…without actually checking out their competencies…(since they have few members to compare and evaluate with) and this becomes a problem when that particular person looks out for a change & is not ready to step down from the “designation” which he/she would not be eligible for the other Co.

Well, lets put this question in another way…how do you evaluate/judge the competency? Is it years of experience? Only based on technical skills? Do you compare with the other members?! Do you designate according to his/her previous designation from other Co.?

What if you have an employee who is technically very strong, but lacks people management skills…at the same time have someone who is very good in time/team management but technically weaker than the former…whom will you assign as a Team Leader/Manager!?


I was/am expecting more inputs from our HRs here…

Hope to get more valuable feedbacks on this issue…




Neil
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  Rated +3 | Posted 10-12-2008

Ask a hard one!

Different organisations can have different hierarchical structures at different times according to their needs. There can also be different structures within different divisions and departments within a company at the same time depending on function.

Examples

The Former: Entrepreneurial organisations, especially new start ups, generally function best with tribal structures, open door operations with everyone as informed as practical and people multi-tasking/doubling up according to the needs and problems at the time. This often involves into a loose cadre structure in the more successful operations but can turn into a rigid "do what I tell you dictatorship in times of crisis or in less well developed organisations. This (dictatorship) can be a destructive approach turning a highly flexible organisation into a rigid one.

The Latter: Many successful multi-national organisations run different departments with different structures according to their out put. Marketing can be a loose flat hierarchy facilitating creative functions whilst accounts a highly structured and strict hierarchy facilitating international compliance procedures with a strong set of checks and balances against fraud and incompetence. Production can have clear reporting hierarchies for coordination but cadre structures within production teams for quick problem solving.

The important point to remember is all hierarchies are political structures created for a purpose and that purpose is always to distribute and manage power for the benefit of the company. Get it right and the company prospers get it wrong and (particularly in the current climate) it folds.

Poustina
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  Rated +3 | Posted 10-12-2008

Very well said Ramakrishna…



Million thanks for your valuable contribution&hell... See Diana's complete reply


Diana
A manager should definitely have people management skills but merely having these skills would not help. It is 80% of Tech or functional skills and 20% ppl mgmt skills which will make a good manager and to them we would assign members. For this to know if he is efficient enough you should have employee evaluation or Manager's Assessment on Effective Leadership is required to be done every quarter.

Diana
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  Rated 0 | Posted 10-12-2008

Neil... Thanks for your description of different managements…well said, this is a very important step in building a good Co…if not well planned, it can be disastrous…

Poustina…Thanks for the brief & mentioning very important point…”timely assessment” of the managers…



Still... waiting for more feedbacks... Please give a real time experience as well....

Naga Bharadwaj
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  Rated +2 | Posted 10-12-2008

Hi Diana,

Its very delicate point what you have asked (Identifying the competency and assigning the designation to them).

It depends on the company to company how they will give the designation depending on the experience.

If you take companies like IBM, they will have the Banda like 6A, 6B, 7A, 7B etc... like that. People with 2-3 yrs experience will come under band 6, 3-8 comes to band 7 and more than 8 will come under band 8. they have their own designations for each band.

There are some cases if the person is expeince is only 2 years and he is worth of 4 years guy they will change the designation.


Naga

Diana
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  Rated 0 | Posted 10-12-2008

Hi Diana,



Its very delicate point what you have asked (Identifying the competency and... See Naga Bharadwaj's complete reply


Thanks for your inputs Naga,

Yes, I was waiting for this important point as well...

We already have a predifined slabs/groups/levels based on the "years" of experience... but is this fare?!

Believe me, I have seen candidates with 3 + years experience, but performance wise they are not even upto the mark of a guy with 1 year Exp.
& also vice versa ....

As you have mentioned, the real worth & caliber of a person should be evaluated...not the years of Exp.....

would like to know others' opinions on this as well...








Naga Bharadwaj
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  Rated +2 | Posted 10-12-2008

Hi Diana,



Its very delicate point what you have asked (Identifying the competency and... See Naga Bharadwaj's complete reply


Thanks for your inputs Naga,



Yes, I was waiting for this important point as well...See Diana's complete reply


What you said is roght but practically it is impossible.

for suppose, take you as example. You have 3 years of experience in Recruitments and u r paid 3.6L per annum. If ur management got a person in the market with 2yers exp in the same industry but who is efficient than you (attitude wise, or communication or presentation or dealing with the situation etc). If they hire him as a senoir to u with more than the salary what you r getting.

Is that fair Even though if u r convinced saying that he is more efficient than you. People will have one quality "Ego", how much you try to convince ur self, it will raise one day, and that day will be your last day in the company or the some other.

Thats y generally companies will follow certain bands and salary and designations are relates to that band.

Very rare cases, if they find the person extraordinary they will change the salary and band to him.

Hope this clears your point.

Naga

Diana
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  Rated 0 | Posted 10-12-2008

Thanks Naga,

Will wait for others to debate on this issue as well...

Neil
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  Rated 0 | Posted 10-12-2008

Neil... Thanks for your description of different managements…well said, this is a very import... See Diana's complete reply


Situations alter cases.

Either be specific here or talk to me privately

Neil



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